Hello and welcome to Brokonomics. Now, a little while ago, I did an episode called Industrializing Space.

When I got a clever chap, Grant Donahuey, come on, and we talked about everything from industrializing low Earth orbit, and then we kind of basically went up from there to, you know, the local couple of planets and then the rest of the solar system and then and then the galaxy and then

the local cluster and we got a little bit ambitious with that one and and i just thought

that would be an interesting side topic but it turned out to be one of the most popular episodes

we've ever done lots of people absolutely loved it really high view account people i've met in

person have told me it's one of their favorite episodes.

So I thought, well, we can hardly let that lie, can we? So we got Grant back, Grant. Thank you for coming. Hello. Hello. Well, that's very encouraging. Yes, no, it's, it went very well.

So, you know, whatever it is we did last time, obviously work. So, so well done. Uh, and welcome back. Glad to have,

you back. Now, um, the only thing with last time is, is we were, we were potentially a teeny,

tiny bit hubrisic in that we kind of suggested that we could colonize, you know, the local

cluster of galaxies on the assumption that we

were the only ones doing it. We kind of had uninterrupted access. And actually, that might

not be true. There might be other competing civilizations out there and we're going to be

going up against them. So I thought maybe we might want to cover that a bit.

So, yeah.

So to build on what you said, it's pretty fair to say that we did have a bit of hubris.

I mean, I think it's well justified.

But we put forward really the two main current, currently discussed solutions to the Drake equation,

which is the dark forest and the firstborn, right?

Yes.

And we tended, at least I tended to favor the firstborn.

But it's, that doesn't, we can conjecture about lots of things, but it's worth having

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