Hello and we're going to this episode of Epoch. I am joined by Luca Johnson.

Hello how are you sir? Great, great to be back both. Thank you.

And we're going to be talking all about the fourth crusade. Yes, yeah.

The particularly spicy one.

It is a bit spicy, isn't it?

I think there are lots and lots of crusades.

If you go on Wikipedia or something, you look up a list of crusades.

There's loads.

Well over a dozen.

But the first four are the main ones.

Yeah, for sure.

The first four are the big four.

Yeah, I think so.

The first three are sort of the same in the sense

that the idea is to get to Jerusalem and they do at least get close to Jerusalem in all of those because the first crusade in 1099 actually successfully do it.

But the fourth crusade does depart a bit from that, doesn't it?

Yeah, there's a few details. Yeah. It was already supposed to be a detail because you know what

what people find as we go into this one is actually the fourth one kind of evolves off the

third and what begins as a very organic manner because back when Richard was

obviously leading the of the resources he wouldn't be able to hold it and one of the things that his

advisors his councilman say to him then is if you actually realistically wanted to

take it you would have to probably take Egypt or Cairo or you basically just cut off

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