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The Lawfare Podcast

Rational Security: “The More You DOGE” Edition

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.76.2K Ratings

🗓️ 23 April 2025

⏱️ 86 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower, Tyler McBrien, and Kevin Frazier to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

  • “Aliens vs. Predators.” Despite forceful legal pushback—including by the U.S. Supreme Court—the Trump administration is working hard to continue its campaign to remove foreign aliens it accuses of pursuing a “predatory incursion” from the country using the Alien Enemies Act. How far will it go? And to what extent can the courts (or anyone else) stop them?
  • “Aye Aye Robot.” Both the Biden and Trump administrations were fans of artificial intelligence (AI) and set out policies to incorporate it into government decision-making. But while the Biden administration focused much of its efforts on guardrails, the Trump administration has increasingly torn them down as part of a broader push to incorporate the nascent technology into government decision-making. What are the risks and potential benefits of this sort of government by AI? 
  • “For Pete’s Sake.” Beleaguered Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is more beleaguered than ever this week, after reports that, in addition to inadvertently sharing classified secrets with Atlantic reporter Jeffrey Goldberg, he also passed them to his wife, brother, and personal lawyer on another Signal thread. Meanwhile, a former adviser (and established Trump loyalist) went public with allegations that Hegseth’s management has led to chaos at the Defense Department and called for his resignation. Will this be enough for the Trump administration to cut bait and run? Or does his support in the MAGAsphere simply run too deep?

In object lessons, Tyler, fresh from biking adventures abroad, hyped the routes, photos, and resources on bikepacking.com, if physical exertion is your idea of relaxation. Anna, finding other ways to relax, came to the defense of The Big Short in helping to soothe her anxiety amid more current market upheaval. Doubling down on the “no relaxation without tension” theme, Scott’s outie binge-watched Severance while on vacation. And Kevin, very on-brand, was quick to bring us a feel-good story of a new community partnership to support AI skill-building in Austin-based nonprofits. 

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Transcript

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0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising.

0:04.4

To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at

0:11.5

patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.

0:18.2

Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull,

0:26.9

and The Aftermath.

0:31.7

You're entitled. Yes, you heard me. Entitled, entitled,led. And before you go all, I am not entitled, just relax.

0:41.8

I'm not talking about never buying your round or never giving a little thank you wave in the car.

0:46.6

I'm just saying that most people who use a screen at work are entitled to free eye care.

0:51.7

Tell your boss to look into Specsaver's corporate eye care vouchers

0:54.7

and you could get a free eye test and up to 70 pounds towards glasses. Find out more at

0:59.3

specksavers.com.uk. Conditions apply. At Waitrose, you can now get your everyday essentials

1:04.9

at new lower prices. So, honey's lower, onions are lower. Cucumber, pork mince, potatoes, tea bags, chickpeas and mature

1:13.6

cheddar are all lower, lower, and yep, you guessed it, lower. Get all these and more everyday essentials

1:19.6

at new lower prices at Waitrose. Shop in store or online at Waitrose.com today. Selected lines and

1:26.5

stores, subject to availability, minimum online

1:28.1

spend and delivery charges apply. Price may vary in Channel Islands, little waitrose and partners

1:31.4

and concessions. Kevin, as our in-house AI guru, you'll be happy to know I have been playing

1:40.8

around quite avidly on Gemini, having recently discovered that we, by virtue of our

1:46.2

Google platform at work here at Lawfare, have access to Gemini and Gemini Deep Research.

1:51.1

I have to say, it's pretty impressive.

1:52.5

I've had it draft.

1:53.6

I've been a brutal, brutal partner to my digital junior associate in terms of the sheer volume

...

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