Welcome to significant others. I'm Liza Powell O'Brien and in yesterday's episode

we heard the story of Peggy Schippin who has a young wife and mother was

instrumental in turning her husband Benedict Arnold against his country.

Today we're going to talk a little bit more about women and the American Revolution, and

joining me to do that is the hilarious and brilliant author,

Sarah Vowel. Sarah, what a pleasure and a treat I get to talk to you today.

Thank you so much for doing this. Sure thing, why is that? to you

so much for doing this.

So this episode is a follow-up to our Peggy Shippin episode which aired yesterday and Peggy of course is the wife of Trader Benedict Arnold and she

factored into his trajectory to a degree that I was completely unaware of and I thought it would be great to talk to you just

because it's great to talk to you but also because this you know when I'm I'm

ingesting the story of Peggy Shepin and sort of how she went from being a,

what one can imagine as a fairly typical teenage girl who liked parties and dances and boys and you know

loved her dad but also sort of you know had problems with him that maybe she wasn't

quite reconciling at the time and then she

I cannot identify with that at all and and she becomes this force of, you know, depending on what side of the revolution you sit on,

kind of a force for evil in a way in the service of trying to help her husband get what she thought was kind of the best deal.

And I assume that she thought she was also doing what was best for her country quote-unquote although it wouldn't have

actually been so much a country if she had gotten her way.

Yeah, well that maybe wasn't totally her priority but when you say it like which side you're on even

that I mean just thinking about it in terms of geometry like the simplistic version of that war is it's two parallel lines.

It's these two sides squaring off, right? But when you get into it, it's more, I think, of kind of this like blobby polygon where, you know, like even, I mean, her family, they were kind of they were in Philadelphia right so they were

...