Hey everyone, this is Abby Martin. You're listening to the audio version of this episode,

which you can watch at YouTube.com slash empire files.

Palestinians. Only human when described as human shields.

Those are the words from a poem by Saul Williams.

Saul is an icon of the slam poetry movement, who's also gained prominence as a writer, musician, and an actor.

He's published several poetry books, released a new album every couple years since 2001, and among other roles, he starred in the groundbreaking Broadway musical, Holler If You Hear Me.

And in 2021, he co-directed and wrote the highly acclaimed film, Neptune Frost.

Saul, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today on The Empire Files.

I'm a huge fan of all of your work, your art.

I'm just incredibly honored that you took the time to talk to me today.

Well, thank you.

It's a pleasure to talk to you.

I'm a fan of your journalism.

I'm a fan of your work, and I'm a fan of your voice and spirit.

And yeah, these are extremely dire times.

And yeah, so it's nice to take a moment and talk.

Absolutely. Thank you. That's incredible to hear that.

Let's just kind of catch up on where we are in the world with the genocide unfolding in

Gaza. Since October 7th, you know, Israel has killed at least 15,000 civilians. I would say

that the number is much higher than that, but that's

what's confirmed. Thousands more trapped under the rubble, tens of thousands left injured.

80% of the population is internally displaced. No where to go. All the safe, allegedly safe

...