Hello and welcome to Under the Skin from Luminary. This week I spoke with Professor Shoshana

Zuboff, Professor Shoshana Zuboff. That's a nice name to say. Why laughing?

That was laughing at your dance. The dance? Yeah. Professor Shoshana or Zuboff?

Yeah. So nice to say and also I wondered if it was sexist of me to say how beautiful her hair was.

Yeah, but he said charming, which is also just neutral.

Neutral and also don't you remember when that guy came on? Luke, Kim.

I basically had to be pulled off him. I think it's sexual.

Did I sexualize him? I mean a little bit. I objectified him in a sexual way.

I made an object of him. There's no way that that's object is sexual.

Yeah, why would you do that to an object? Why would that make someone sexy?

The last thing you see? Well, I suppose what it means is you're looking at them,

you're eliminating their agency and sentience. You're like, you could be used for this,

isn't it? There's an objectification that I have think happens beyond sexualisation.

I think that's the objectification of people to just see them as commodities, to see them just

as workers. I don't know. Friendship. Some people think you're just being used as a therapist.

It's a people doing that to you. I don't know, maybe. I don't think so, Jen.

I'm clearly I'm going to give him advice. I'll give him a call for advice.

Who? Who? My family and my friends. What are you suggesting?

I'm the person, yeah. What are they saying? Jen.

Jen. I'm struggling with this decision. What do you think?

What do you say? Very neutral. I get it from my dad. My dad said never take sides ever.

Bloody hell. And anyone's issues. I suppose.

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