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Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the Spectator's Daily Politics Podcast.

I'm Oskredington and I'm joined today by the Spectator's Deputy Political Editor James

Heel and Claire Ainsley, former executive director of policy for Labour, now at the Progressive

Policy Institute.

And it is St George's Day. So to celebrate, we thought we'd ask who is the most patriotic political leader and why it is that some often struggle communicating their love of country.

But Claire, I wanted to start with you, because Keir Stama has given an interview to The Mirror,

which went out this morning where he said that Labor is the patriotic party. Do you think that is true? I think it is true

and I think the voters believe it's true as well. And historically, it has mostly been true,

but not always. And therefore, you should have think, isn't it obvious that a British prime

minister would be able to say that about their own party? And the whole hasn't always been

obvious for voters of the Labour Party. And I think it is true now. And it has been under

Kier-Starmer's leadership throughout. But I'm interested from your time working in the

leader of the opposition's office, how much the question of patriotism was spoken about?

Because you allude there in your first answer to the fact that perhaps under Jeremy Corbyn,

there was a reluctance to get out the flag, stand him in front of the Union Jack.

Was there a concerted effort to change that under Kirstama?

There was, and it was an absolute necessity. In 2020, when

Kirstearnba became leader at the Labour Party, we asked voters a lot, what did you think of

...