Hello, welcome to the Editor's Desk.

This is the podcast where we take a closer look at the essays and articles in the latest print issue of First Things magazine.

I'm Rusty Reno on the editor of First Things Magazine, and I'm here with you today at the editor's desk.

This week we have with us, Patricia Snow, who is the author of Taylor Swift's Sexual Revolution

in the November 24 issue. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. Well, you open

with Gloria Steinem. Yes. And I gather you were in the room. I was in the room and we're,

this is 1970 Yale University. Correct. The pot was boiling.

The cultural pot was boiling at every level at that moment.

Well, it was underway.

Yes, it was underway.

And it's funny, when I spoke to Adam on about this, he was like, wow, you were there at the beginning.

And it made me feel better because when I was

writing this and I thought, okay, if I'm going to place Taylor Swift in this juggernaut,

then I have to summarize kind of what's happened. And then I thought, who do I think I am?

I'm summarizing the sexual revolution. But then, as he pointed out, I'm old enough.

It's not a question of wisdom.

It's a question of age.

I was there at the beginning.

So I've kind of seen this unfold.

So Gloria Steinem, founder of Ms. Magazine, sort of, I guess, what would you describe her, sort of the flag standard

bearer for women's lib, which is not strictly speaking the same thing as a sexual revolution,

but it really wound up fusing together this notion of, you know, my body, my choice, or my body,

...