The creator of Fargo is done with good guys vs. bad guys

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 30 January 2023

⏱️ 51 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sean Illing talks with Noah Hawley, the creator and showrunner of the anthology drama Fargo on FX, as well as a celebrated novelist whose newest book is Anthem (2022). They discuss themes stemming from Hawley's recent piece in the Atlantic about myths, stories, and tropes from the Old West (and Hollywood) that are still powerful and active in shaping American society. Hawley also talks about why we're drawn to shows like Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, what to expect on the forthcoming fifth season of Fargo, and what his new novel says about the future. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Noah Hawley (@noahhawley), novelist; tv/film director References: "It's High Noon in America" by Noah Hawley (The Atlantic; Dec. 19, 2022) Anthem by Noah Hawley (Grand Central; 2022) Slaughterhouse-Five, or, The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death by Kurt Vonnegut (1969) "'Duck Dynasty' vs. 'Modern Family': 50 Maps of the U.S. Cultural Divide" by Josh Katz (New York Times; Dec. 27, 2016) "The sex-trafficking investigation of Matt Gaetz, explained" by Amber Phillips (Washington Post; Jan. 27, 2022) The Trial by Franz Kafka (1925) Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by: Producer: Erikk Geannikis Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Support for today's show comes from the financial times, or better known as the FT.
0:05.8	We are living in challenging times, and the FT wants to help you make sense of global
0:10.0	issues like geopolitics, global inflation, tech, climate change, and more.
0:15.8	The FT investigates them many different and sometimes unexpected ways that stories interconnect
0:21.0	and combine to impact your life and career.
0:24.0	Visit FT.com slash the gray area to read free articles and say 50% off in annual
0:29.7	digital subscription.
0:59.7	7 Reporting for duty.
1:09.1	In the 1952 film High Nune, Gary Cooper plays Marshall Will King.
1:15.6	And basically, the bad guys are coming back and Will's got to make a decision.
1:21.0	Should he leave town like everyone else, or should he stay and uphold law and order?
1:27.0	It's maybe the clearest example of what we call the reluctant hero, an unquestionably
1:48.4	good upright moral individual, a man usually.
1:53.3	Thanks Hollywood, who sticks around to solve the problem of evil, who's duty bound to
2:00.4	put his life on the line and have some big showdown.
2:14.8	There's a problem with this story though.
2:17.7	This is almost never how things work in real life.
2:22.3	Little justice rarely culminates in some kind of good guy versus bad guy standoff.
2:28.9	But hey, it's a great story, isn't it?
2:33.4	We talk about a lot of things on this show, but we often come back to the power of stories
2:40.0	and how this power relates to our social and political dysfunction.
2:46.3	Obviously we're having these conversations with scholars or public intellectual types.
	...

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