The following podcast contains descriptions of rape, sexual abuse, and murder.

Listener discretion is advised.

Previously, on families who kill the donut shop murders.

I've always found the Forrest and Genachabi case

especially sad to think about,

because I think about how terrible it would be to be kidnapped with someone you love and to watch

them suffer and die.

Carl and Sherman, these are too angry individuals both just dripping with inadequacy trying to outdo each other.

And of course they both blame one another for it, so we don't really have a clear picture of the dynamic from either

man because both men say he was the real monster I was just the getaway driver.

I was a young idealistic cop who became a detective. I was really hopeful he could get the death

sentence and I could be there on the day when they flipped the switch.

And I looked around and there comes Sherman through the door.

And I just looked around and I pulled out my gut and she looked and started laughing.

I told her, this ain't no toy girl.

And she looked a hell a lot younger than she was.

I think she was about 25 years old.

She said, I know it's not a toy.

She said, you know?

She said, when you drove up, she said,

I thought in my mind, you were to rob me. And I said, is that right?

And so I said, let's not sit around here all night talking about it then. So she put all the money in

...