Hello there. This is Mark Bauerline with another conversation. Before we get to it, a word about one of our sponsors.

Located in the foothills of Wyoming's spectacular Wind River Range, Wyoming Catholic College,

an accredited four-year Great Books Institution is built on the ancient Western tradition

of the liberal arts and the freedom of the American West. The college offers its students

an immersion in the primary sources of the classical tradition, the grandeur of the mountain

wilderness, and the spiritual heritage of the Catholic

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largest freshman class ever this year. Learn more about the college's unique space in the world

of American higher education at Wyoming Catholic.edu. Chilton Williamson Jr. is with us today. He's

served as literary editor at National Review for many years and columnist

at Chronicles magazine. He is a novelist. I'll mention the one trio of novels, Desert Light,

the homestead, Jerusalem, Jerusalem. He's a memoirist, roughnecking it about his time in the gas fields

of Wyoming. Rusty Reno might have something to say about that.

And he is a cultural commentator as well. For example, after Tocqueville, the promise and future of democracy.

He also has a new book out called The End of Liberalism. And that is our topic today. Welcome, Mr.

Williamson. Welcome, Mr. Williamson.

Thank you so much. It's good to be with you, Mr. Barilani. All right. Your opening,

your opening sentence is liberalism is not yet a dead faith, but it's a dying one. Now, by faith, do you mean that term

loosely or you really see liberalism as some kind of religion? I see it as religious in the sense

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