From the New York Times, this is the interview.

I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro.

Four years ago, after the tumultuous first Trump administration,

President Biden came into office promising to rebuild old alliances and defend democracy.

The man tasked with doing that on the world stage was Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, a longtime diplomat who'd worked with the president for decades.

The message to America's allies and enemies alike was that a new era of stability was at hand.

Instead, the world blew up. Secretary Blinken was beset by an

escalating series of international crises almost from the beginning, from the Afghanistan withdrawal

to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, to Hamas' attack on Israel and the subsequent war in Gaza and conflict in the

wider Middle East.

All the while, Blinken championed this promise of robust American diplomacy to solve the world's many problems.

But as the Biden administration winds down, those conflicts around the world rage on.

A new Trump administration is set to retreat from the very alliances and institutions

Blinken championed, and what role America will play in the changing global order is an open

question. On Thursday, I sat down with Blinken at the State Department for a wide-ranging conversation

about the world he's leaving behind, which,

despite it all, he argues, is better than the one he inherited.

Here's my conversation with Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken.

Secretary Blinken, four years ago, you inherited the world from President Trump. And now you're

about to hand it back to him. Your tenure has been an unprecedented interregnum, if you will.

Have you thought about what a strange position that is to be in?

Well, I think a lot about the two sides of this coin that you just alluded to, what we inherited

...