Hey, everyone is Andrew Claven with this week's interview with my son, Spencer Claven, no relation.

And the reason I want to talk to

Spencer is Spencer and I spent a lot of last year writing our substack called the New Jerusalem,

the new Jerusalem.substack.com, where we've been discussing basically the idea of God in a

transhuman world, in a world where you can sort of choose your powers, choose the sort

of things that you attach to yourself, choose the way you change your body and change even

your mind.

How are we going to be guided and how to do those things and remain essentially human?

And Spencer has written a tremendous book, a book called Light of the Mind, Light of the

World, Illuminating Science through Faith.

It's gotten great reviews.

In fact, it came out last year along with my book, almost the same day, I think.

But it's really catching on now as some of these intellectual journals catch up

with it. And it's a really wonderful book about the fact that really science, not only does not

disprove faith, but without faith, there really can be no science. That faith is actually,

the Christian faith especially, is the sort of birthplace of science and the matrix

of science, if you will. So anyway, I wanted to invite Spencer on at the beginning of the year to

talk about some of the things that are happening. And so, first of all, I'll say, hi, Spencer.

How are you doing? Oh, hey, Dad. Great to see you. It's great to see you. You know,

the reason I actually wanted to talk to you is I feel that we've kind of talked

about this ourselves is that the argument that you're making is really important.

And you lay out in light of the mind, light of the world, the argument you're making

...