We're getting into the heat of election season in the US, an intense worrying not normal election season.

I used to cover politics, but I tired of how often stories weren't about the stakes around policy,

but were instead about trying to get into the heads of campaign consultants and predicting

what was going to happen. I still find people in public service fascinating, though,

and how we project so much of our hopes and resentments

on these leaders.

One person I find really interesting is San Francisco Mayor London Breed.

I live in the Bay Area, so I hear about her in the local news, but even if you don't, I'm sure you've heard about how San Francisco is faring these days.

There's been a lot of talk of a doom loop in the city since COVID,

with a central city emptied out by now remote workers and some

neighborhoods overwhelmed by homeless encampments were people using

dangerous and deadly drugs out in the open. San Francisco had a record number of overdose deaths last year,

the vast majority from fentanyl poisoning.

That same year, a writer in New York magazine

wrote after a visit to San Francisco, the city often seemed

to operate like an incompetent parent, confusing compassion and permissiveness, unable to maintain maintain boundaries producing the exact opposite result of what it claimed to want.

So I wanted to talk to Mayor London Breed about the parenting and community values that made her.

Mayor London Breed is not a parent herself, she's never had kids.

She was raised by her grandmother, and by her 20s she herself was an active caregiver as her

her grandmother developed dementia.

She and I talk about that,

and about leading San Francisco

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