What Elon Musk Wants

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 7 February 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Elon Musk has been on a slash-and-burn tear through the federal government — gaining access to I.T. systems, dismantling U.S.A.I.D. and unleashing a firehose of attacks on his platform, X, accusing the bureaucracy of various conspiratorial crimes. As this all unfolds before our eyes, it’s hard to believe that Musk, not that long ago, was a conventional Obama-era liberal. How did a guy who cared about climate change and going to Mars, whose companies were buoyed by government largess, become Donald Trump’s most unapologetic soldier? What does he hope to do with all this power? What does Musk want? Kara Swisher has been reporting on Musk for decades and is one of the great tech reporters of our age. She hosts the podcasts “On With Kara Swisher” and “Pivot,” with Scott Galloway, and is the author of “Burn Book: A Tech Love Story.” This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “What’s Wrong With Donald Trump?” by Ezra Klein “The Men and (No) Women Facebook of Facebook Management” by Kara Swisher Book Recommendations: North Woods by Daniel Mason On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder Memorial Days by Geraldine Brooks Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	From New York Times opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show. So at the beginning, Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency seemed to have ended up with a fairly narrow mandate.
0:38.7	You can look at the Trump Executive Order creating it, and it says,
0:43.1	the purpose is modernizing federal technology and software to maximize governmental efficiency
0:48.4	and productivity. In the last couple weeks, it's become clear that Musk's role is a whole lot larger than that.
0:54.9	Elon Musk, right now, involved in almost every agency and corner of the United States government.
1:00.8	Offering all federal employees a buyout to resign.
1:04.4	Musk and his team have accessed at least 11 agencies, and the count is growing every day.
1:09.9	His team has gained access to something extraordinarily sensitive.
1:13.7	The Treasury Department's payment system, which handles trillions of dollars in payments,
1:19.1	and the private information of every single American in this country.
1:23.0	Elon Musk seized control of USAID.
1:26.0	People getting fired, people getting furloughed in droves.
1:29.0	Hosting on X, quote, we spent the weekend feeding USAID into the Woodchipper.
1:34.5	They are raiding the government.
1:37.4	We don't pledge allegiance to the billionaires.
1:40.9	We don't, we don't pledge allegiance to Elon Musk.
1:44.6	What's the plan? What's the plan? What's the plan? What's the plan? What's the plan?
1:50.5	And so far, at least, Musk's patron Donald Trump, seems to be on board.
1:55.2	I think he's doing a great job. He's a smart guy, very smart. And he's very much into cutting the budget of our federal government.
2:03.2	And as I've watched all this unfold, I've been wondering how Elon Musk has evolved in the way he has.
2:09.6	How did he go from conventional Obama-era liberal, worried about climate change and who wanted to go to Mars,
2:15.5	to right-wing conspiratorial meme lord working to elect the far
	...

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