Yanis Varoufakis on What Comes After Capitalism

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.6 • 907 Ratings

🗓️ 25 January 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Yascha Mounk and Yanis Varoufakis discuss whether the dominance of large cloud-focused tech companies signals the arrival of a new economic order. Yanis Varoufakis is an economist, politician, and the former Greek Minister of Finance. Varoufakis is the author of Another Now: Dispatches from an Alternative Present and Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Yanis Varoufakis discuss whether the extraction of "cloud rent" by Big Tech heralds a return to an earlier, pre-capitalist form of commerce; the technological and economic future of Europe (and of the European Union); and the geopolitics of a new cold war between China and the United States. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:30.6	Look at the New York Stock Exchange.
0:32.4	If you get out all the companies, Magnificent 7, who are connected to cloud capital,
0:36.7	either because they
0:38.2	are creating it, as Nvidia does, with its chips, or because they are harvesting cloud rent
0:44.3	directly.
0:45.2	If you take those out, there's nothing left of the New York Stock Exchange to speak of.
0:49.5	I mean, the rest is just utterly insignificant.
0:51.5	It's perhaps less significant than the London Stock Exchange is today.
0:55.4	And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.
1:03.6	My guest today is Janis Varifakis.
1:07.1	Janis is famous for his role in the Euro crisis when he was Minister of Finance for Greece for about six months in 2015.
1:17.6	He also is the author of a number of interesting books, including most recently techno-fudalism, What Killed Capitalism? Janice and I talked first about his idea of techno-fudalism, what killed capitalism. Yannis and I talked first about his idea
1:29.9	of techno feudalism, his claim that the world is really entering a completely new economic era,
1:35.3	that after feudalism and capitalism, we're now in a third stage defined by the dominance,
1:42.3	not of rent or of profit, but of cloud capital. I try to make
1:47.5	sense of that claim, push him a little bit on it, try to tease out what that might actually
	...

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