359 - John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall - Why Christianity?
The Symbolic World
Jonathan Pageau
4.8 • 824 Ratings
🗓️ 19 September 2024
⏱️ 93 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/Vp_08T0Ucik
REGISTER TODAY FOR OUR NEW SYMBOLIC WORLD COURSE WITH JOHN VERVAEKE: The Cognitive Science of Ritual. Live classes start on October 7th, 2024, 2-4 pm EST on the Symbolic World Circle community. This is a 6-week, 12-hour online course. All lesson recordings will be made available afterward and all materials will be provided. The final lesson will be co-hosted by Jonathan Pageau in a Q&A format. All patrons at the Involved tier or higher get a 10% discount; see your unique code at the top of the course page and apply at checkout: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-cognitive-science-of-ritual
Join Jonathan Pageau, Jordan Hall, John Heers, and others in Florida for an exclusive, intimate weekend filled with leisure and hospitality. This November event is a fundraiser for First Things Foundation. Learn more: https://first-things.org/aot
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:42 - Intro music
02:07 - Introduction
05:07 - John's pov on Jonathan and Jordan's conversation
08:49 - Why Christian faith?
15:38 - Jordan's answer: the Ultimate Map
18:27 - The current dialogos
21:10 - Jonathan: The Christian Escatological map
25:52 - Jordan: Relationship to Jesus
32:20 - Grief and the qualities of love
37:40 - Jonathan: Particularity beyond duality
41:43 - Jordan: A deeper capacity to suffer
44:49 - John: Being is good / Not escape
46:54 - Jonathan: Theosis
49:25 - What if this is a crypto-egoism?
55:26 - Is this the grounding of your Christian faith?
01:01:29 - Zen: Does the infinite love you?
01:11:39 - Intimacy
01:22:18 - We can't be meta
01:27:47 - Universalism
01:29:01 - We each have our callings
01:30:21 - John and Christianity
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Does Zen, let's say, formulate the infinite as relational to the finite? |
| 0:06.8 | Yes. |
| 0:08.3 | And so we can enter into... |
| 0:10.4 | Emptiness is form, form is emptiness. Exactly, explicitly. |
| 0:14.4 | So, I mean, I know this is going to sound weird, but then why isn't, why don't people |
| 0:18.9 | pray in Zen? |
| 0:25.4 | They do. so I happen to know his then Roshi and he he prays and he chants and so forth what is what is what's the infinite like |
| 0:35.2 | does it have a history I'm sorry you can join you going to have to be more precise what you mean by that question. |
| 0:42.3 | Well, you know, one of the things of something that has a character relationship is that it has a character relationship. |
| 0:49.3 | And so the question is something like... |
| 0:52.3 | Well, okay, let me answer that. Let me answer that first. Okay. So, you know, |
| 0:57.3 | this is Schellingberg, who's an atheist, but he says what we're talking about, we're talking about |
| 1:01.6 | sacred is, you know, it's ultimately real. And again, not in the neutral sense and the |
| 1:06.0 | onto normative. I want to participate in it. So that's a relationship term. I want to participate |
| 1:10.4 | in it. I want to conform to it. I want to reciprocally open. I want to participate in it. So that's a relationship term. I want to participate in it. |
| 1:11.0 | I want to conform to it. |
| 1:12.5 | I want to reciprocally open. |
| 1:14.3 | I want to be realized by it as I realize it. |
| 1:16.9 | All of that. |
| 1:18.0 | Secondly, it's ultimately orienting. |
| 1:20.5 | Like people reorient towards it. |
| 1:23.0 | Right? |
... |
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