Radio Mano, Papa Chango What's up, everybody.

Welcome to another episode of tangentially speaking.

This is kind of a special episode where I've invited Anya and Nadia to join me to talk about the retreats that we hold in Montana.

So if you have any interest in potentially joining us at the retreat this summer, or maybe in the future,

if we keep doing them, this will be especially interesting for you.

But even if it's not in the cards for you to join us at the retreat, this could be

interesting in the sense that we talk a lot about the ways in which truly authentic

conversation can merge into the sorts of movement and somatic psychology that they have studied and are studying and teach, just kind of the whole like mind, body, interaction, connection.

The fact that we, you know, have these different words for mind and body.

It doesn't mean that mind and body are actually separate things, you know?

So often language misleads us in these ways, where we have words for things and then they become things.

And maybe they're not things.

It reminds me of that concept of spandrels.

There's a great essay.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before on the podcast.

It's called the Spandrels of San Marco, I believe,

by Stephen Jay Gould and Leventon, I think, is the co-author. Anyway, the point is,

it's actually, it's a really interesting essay because it starts off talking about an architectural

phenomenon, which is when you, when you make an arch, before you make the arch,

you make sort of a standard rectangular opening in the wall, right, with two posts and a beam

going across the top. And then you fill that in to make the arch. But generally, the arch is not

weight supporting. Generally, it's a decorative arch inside a rectangular structure. So when you make the arch, you have these areas in the corner of the rectangular

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