Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, BTR.org. I'm Anne. I'm sure you remember what it was like when you were searching for help, maybe for your husband, hoping to find the right program or therapist. That's why I started podcasting. I supported my husband through seven years of pornography addiction recovery and not one therapist during that time told me I was experiencing emotional

and psychological abuse and sexual coercion. I didn't want any other woman on the planet to be in

the dark. If you're like the majority of my listeners, you're experiencing the type of abuse that's

invisible and difficult to wrap your head around. Your husband is using porn or having

affairs or lying to you, and you're getting the same bad advice about how to improve communication

or your relationship. If you need support from women who totally understand, check out our daily

group session schedule at BTR.org slash group. We'd love to see you in a session today. One simple, anonymous way to help spread the word

is to click, follow, or subscribe to the Betrayal Trauma Recovery podcast on your favorite

podcasting app. While you're there, every five-star rating helps make this podcast more visible

and will help save other women from getting the wrong kind of help, like a couple

program that will make this type of abuse worse. For those of you who follow or subscribe to this

podcast, thank you so much. Your support means so much to me. Welcome to Betrayal trauma recovery.

This is Anne. I'm so excited to have Natalie Hoffman on today's episode. She's the host of the Flying Free

podcast, which is a podcast dedicated to teaching women about emotional and spiritual abuse.

She's also the author of all the scary little gods. And I'm so excited to have her on today.

Welcome, Natalie. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. You're amazing. I've always

appreciated your work, especially all the really interesting and just fascinating deconstruction

that you do with spiritual abuse. I love it. You're so smart. And it's just, it's fun to have you here.

Let's start out by talking about your new book all the

scary little gods i wanted to tell my story the reason why is because i wanted to help women who

were stuck in fundamentalist programming who maybe weren't able to read or had the capacity

or the interest in reading a scholarly type or a nonfiction book

...