Hi, this is Jonathan Leaven.

Welcome to this episode of Nine Marks Pastors Talk.

Nine Marks exist to help pastors build healthy churches learn more at nine marks.org.

One of the things that we're interested in at nine marks is something folk call the

international church, which means a, in our case, an English-speaking church in an overseas

setting.

And we have watched over the years a number of brothers pastor these international churches around the world

to great kingdom impact.

And for instance, a number of years ago, I had a conversation with John Fulmer about his

work in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and the United Christian Church of Dubai.

I want to have another similar conversation today with a brother who grew up

overseas, but is an American and did his schooling here in the United States and has found himself

in Izmir, Turkey. I guess he didn't find himself there. He went there to pastor one of these

so-called international churches. And just another brief for it first. The reason why we think

they're useful is, well, no, I'm going to let you explain Caleb, quote unquote. Caleb,

thank you for joining me. Caleb Gregson. Yes, indeed. Well, not indeed. It's not your real name.

Why can I use your real name?

It is helpful for me and my parents in the work that they're involved in for our names not to be quite as public. And it allows me the freedom to kind of speak a little bit more openly and directly.

But we can say you're pasturing in his mere turkey right now. Sure. And I've known, how long have we known each other,

brother? Ten years, maybe? Ten years, probably about like six years when I was no longer intimidated

by your height, where I actually wanted to be a friend with you. Yeah.

It wasn't my good looks. I mean,

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