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The Good Fight

Francis Fukuyama on Donald Trump at Home and Abroad

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.6 • 907 Ratings

🗓️ 15 March 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Francis Fukuyama is a political scientist, author, and the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University. Fukuyama’s notable works include The End of History and the Last Man and The Origins of Political Order. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. You can find his blog, “Frankly Fukuyama,” at Persuasion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss talks of a ceasefire in Ukraine and what this means, what the impact of Donald Trump’s foreign policy might be on the Far East, and why we should be concerned by Trump’s domestic policy. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:30.8

You know, we're living in such a different world if the United States truly has switched sides

0:35.6

and now is aligning with Russia rather than with Europe,

0:39.1

there's a lot that creates a huge number of vulnerabilities.

0:43.6

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:52.5

My guest today is Francis Fukuyama.

0:55.7

Frank and I last spoke about two months ago in the immediate aftermath of the presidential

1:01.8

inauguration.

1:03.2

Now we reconvened to try and make sense what is happening in the world.

1:08.7

We discussed the situation in Ukraine, what a temporary ceasefire

1:15.1

might look like, whether it could become permanent and freeze the conflict, and how to think

1:20.3

about what is needed to deter any future Russian aggression in Ukraine or elsewhere. We talked about the transatlantic relationship and the extent to which Western Europe seems

1:33.5

to have decided that the United States is no longer a true ally, as well as about what

1:39.0

countries like Germany and France would need to do to actually be able to guarantee the security of the continent without the help of the United States.

1:48.5

We talked about developments in East Asia, the prospect of a potential Chinese invasion of Taiwan,

1:55.9

as well as how countries like Japan and South Korea are thinking about how to defend themselves at a moment

2:02.6

when they may no longer be able to rely on the American administration.

2:07.6

We talked about tariffs and the trade war and the impact that that is likely to have on the American

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