Hi everybody, welcome to this highlight episode of the podcast in Good Company. What we've decided to do is for people who are really in a hurry, we're going to clip down the episode to just be 10 minute long. But probably what you'll see when you heard 10 minutes, you're going to want to hear the whole thing. Now, what we do, Wednesday, full episode, Fridays, the short episode. Tune in.

Hi, everyone. I'm thrilled to be here with Jens Stoltenberg, who just finished off as a Secretary

General in NATO, and before NATO, he was the Prime Minister of Norway. Warm welcome, Janus.

Thank you so much for having me.

So I'm having here, you know, a book which you wrote,

which came out eight years ago, which basically covered the period until 10 years ago.

And it's got a beautiful picture of you on the, on the front here. But just what are the,

what are the most important changes in the world since that book came out?

The most important changes, at least related to my task and my responsibilities in NATO,

is that the world has become more dangerous.

That's the bad news.

The good news is that NATO has become stronger to protect close to one billion people.

Of course, there are many other changes, but seen from a security perspective, we have now a full-scale war in Europe.

We have a new, very devastating conflict in the Middle East, risk of escalation.

And we have significantly more global rivalry between great powers, the United States, China, and then we have cyber hybrid terrorist threats as a constant threat of security.

So fundamentally, we live in a more unpredictable, more dangerous world than we have done for decades.

If we cover some of these points here, so how do you think the Ukraine situation will end?

What's the most likely?

Wars are by nature extremely unpredictable,

so therefore I will be very careful predicting how that will end.

But of course, we all want this war to end.

The challenge is that the quickest way to end the war is to lose a war.

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