Hey, and welcome to The Upgrade.

The podcast from the team at LifeHacker where we help you improve your life one week at a time.

I'm Jordan Calhoun, editor-in-chief of LifeHacker,

and joining me today is LifeHacker's parenting editor, Megan Walbert. Hey, Megan. Hi, Jordan.

Megan, so today we're talking about honing our marketing skills. We are. We're learning how to

better market ourselves and our small businesses with help from marketing expert, Seth Godin.

You need to matter to some people not be ignored by everyone.

And to matter to some people, if you're an Etsy seller, for example,

is not to make the same cake-toppers as every other Etsy seller

and hope that somehow you'll lock into winning search.

It's to make the thing that only you can make

and to make it for the

smallest number of people that could sustain you. Seth is an entrepreneur and best-selling

author of 20 books, including The Dip, Tribes, Permission Marketing, and This Is Marketing. He's also

host of the Akembo podcast and author of his very popular self-titled blog.

Seth is a revered expert in the world of marketing, having given over 200 speeches and interviews on the topic, including his popular TED Talk. So we thought, who better to speak to

on the topic? Absolutely. Megan, what's your general grasp of marketing? Do you have a personal

brand that you cherish, that you mold out there in the interwebs? You know, Jordan, I tried to create a brand for myself and

found that I'm not very good at it. No one is. I know. My husband actually works in marketing.

So I do have a general grasp of what that entails just by watching him do his

job. But I feel like when it comes to marketing yourself or marketing your own product or your own

brand, like that's just kind of a different beast. I don't know. How do you, how do you,

...