Hey, this is Liza. Just a quick note, we recorded this episode before Congress officially opened,

so all that drama about electing a speaker of the house hadn't happened yet.

Welcome back to Significant Others. I'm Liza Powell O'Brien, and this is another bonus conversation

to tie you over while I'm putting together season two. Last time, we spoke with Dana Schwartz

from the podcast Noble Blood about the intensely skewed power imbalance that is inherent to royal

marriages. And today, as we witness the start of the 118th Congress, I thought it would be interesting

to talk a little bit about politics. Specifically, how a two-party system can look a little bit like

a long-term marriage that neither partner actually signed up for. And who better to do that with

than a man who is not only an award-winning journalist and author of historical fiction,

but perhaps the premier observer of national politics. CNN anchor and chief Washington correspondent

Jake Tapper. Jake, this is so exciting. Thank you for being here. Sure, of course.

You know, this podcast focuses on intimate long-term relationships and how influential they can be,

like if one person's always worried about being late, their partner might become more laissez-faire

as a reaction to trying to balance things out. And then all of a sudden, that person becomes

defined as the one who doesn't care about time or whatever. This is totally hypothetical, of course.

But during the midterms, this past fall, it seemed to me that our two political parties were

exhibiting a very similar dynamic. One side would take a stand on an issue, and the other side

would respond by going farther in the opposite direction. And it felt like they were sort of locked

in this path to extremism where each party was being increasingly defined by existing mostly

in opposition to the other. So you pay a lot more attention to this stuff than most people,

certainly more than I do. Is this something you would say you have observed?

I would say in our recent history, things have gotten more extreme, which is not to say that it

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