because I really am on a mission to dispel that myth.

I think the myth is we have a love affair with a platform.

We have a love affair with the people that we see on a stage that is, this person that is

dressed to the nines, you know, we've got our makeup on. We've got that dress and those shoes on.

And we see this polished individual who is presenting themselves in a way as they should and presenting the gospel.

And we identify with what we see versus identifying with what we hear.

We may identify with what we hear, but there is an unhealthy

love affair with what we see and who we see, and we don't realize it.

So you know how people say, we'll say, you should meet my friend so and so?

And then another friend tells you that.

And then finally the two of you meet.

That is the story of my guest today, Cheryl, Luke and myself.

Hi, Cheryl.

Hello there.

I've heard the same thing about you, Lisa.

We heard that so many times. And we finally did meet about last, about this time last year, actually, when we went to the border together, went to, went to Texas, San Antonio area, the border. What was your big memory from that trip if you had one?

Yeah. My big memory is, we were in El Paso, which is. Oh, that's right. El Paso, yes.

Yeah, right by the war is border. And my biggest memory is that's where I was raised. And it had been years since I had been home.

I don't think I'd ever seen the wall.

And walking up to that wall after being able to cross over the border as a young girl without any issues, it took me back. It took me back. We used to do ministry

in Juarez and talking to the children between the wall. I don't know if you remember,

the kids would come up and we'd have conversations. Having that barrier was a little

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