I really think that Mike used cult tactics. I think he is a cult leader. I'm not ready to

understand the whole big dynamic of IHOP in general. Like, give me some years. I don't even know

how to parse it all. But I will say that with his victims, he was just a cult leader with

these women. I mean, the way that he used prophetic words to lock

them in, the way he, you know, won their whole family systems. But the spiritual part, I don't

think people have understood how deep that is.

Yeah. Well, joining me today is someone who knew Mike Bickle at the very beginning of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City.

And she actually roomed with one of his victims, Deborah Perkins, and also Misty Edwards, who's a very well-known worship leader at the International House of Prayer.

For most of the time that my guest was at IHop, KC., as it's often referred to, she believed that

Mike Bickle was healing her from the sexual abuse that she had received

as a child from her own father. But today she believes that Mike Bickle was actually grooming her

so that he could sexually abuse her friends. My guest today is Shelly Hundley, and she joins me now

from another state. I won't say which one, but it is so great to be with you, Shelly. And thanks so much for taking the time.

Glad to be here, Julie. And for a lot of folks, this idea that Mike Bickle would groom someone to sexually abuse their friends. And I know we're going to walk that out and exactly what that

looked like, but just kind of in a nutshell, what do you mean by that? That he groomed you so that he

could sexually abuse your friends? I think for me, what I mean by that is that when I look back,

I see, as you mentioned, I came from a sexual abuse background. And interestingly,

with Mike, he didn't, as far as the survivors that I've known of and have talked to in different

things, it seems like he selected the girls who came from these intact families and then kind of

prepped their whole family. He prepped the

father to, you know, in the case of Tammy Woods, and as well as Deborah Perkins, he had these

strong relationships with them, and then everybody around his victims worshipped him and just had

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