We learn to people please to be safe, to do good to be safe, to push feelings away to be safe.

And it often leads us to a temporary sense of safety, yet in truth, it moves us further from understanding the true needs of the self.

Welcome to like mind, like body.

I'm Laura Sago and I am speaking with Callie Klebinoff today.

She is a psychotherapist, a licensed clinical social worker, a wellness and pain coach, and the current

executive director of the Pain Psychology Center in Los Angeles. We cover a lot of juicy

topics in this interview. Two of my favorites are why getting out of pain might not actually be the

most helpful goal to set on your healing journey,

and what kind of patterns and personality traits could be secretly sabotaging your progress.

As always, this interview is a part of the broader curable universe.

At the center of that universe is, of course, the curable app. If you are new here, go ahead and listen to this episode first, but as soon as you're done,

your very next step should be to try out the curable app. In it, you will find a ton of interviews like this one, over 100

science-backed exercises designed to help you heal chronic symptoms, and much, much more.

And if you start your free 14-day trial of the app now, you will also be eligible to get 50% off of an annual subscription

if you decide that you want to subscribe. So there's no redemption or offer code needed for this.

All you have to do is go to curable.com and get started on your free trial. That's c-U-R-A-B-L-E.com.

Back to today's topic. I am very excited to share this interview with you guys, so let's go

ahead and dive into it.

Welcome, Callie. It is a pleasure to have you on the show at last. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. It has definitely been months in the waiting.

That's right. So for anyone who is not familiar with your work, you are a pain psychologist. You're also currently the

executive director at the Pain Psychology Center in Los Angeles. So you are helping people with

chronic pain work through that every single day. As is the case with many people who work in this

...