This is like mind, like body, a podcast about the surprising ways our thoughts and feelings impact our physical health.

I'm your host, Laura Sago, and on each episode, I will

interview researchers, physicians, and ordinary people who have incredible stories to tell

about the power of the mind-body connection. This podcast is brought to you by and a part of Curable. For anyone who is joining us for the

first time, a quick overview. At Curable, we create recovery programs for chronic pain. And all of our

programs are based on the neuroscience and techniques that you hear us talking about in these

podcast episodes. So if you want to get started on applying some of the techniques you hear about

here to your own pain, the curable app is a great place to learn more and get started.

You can find more information at curablehealth.com. Today on the show, I am speaking

with Dr. Alan Abbas. He is a psychiatrist, professor, and researcher, with a particular expertise

in educating clinicians on how to effectively and compassionately treat chronic pain.

But this interview is not just for clinicians.

It provides great information for chronic pain sufferers on how their unconscious emotions can

translate into symptoms and some practical advice for what they might be able to do about that.

Let's dive into the interview.

Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, Alan.

We are delighted to have you here. Someone you have

collaborated with recently who our listeners are already familiar with is our friend Dr. Howard

Schubner. He's been a guest on the show before. He's also a scientific advisor here at Curable.

Can you tell me a little bit more about the Hidden from View book that you co-authored together,

and what inspired you guys to take on that project?

Well, Howard and I got to know each other over a few years, and I think Howard, in addition to a friend,

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