To be on the right side of history does not mean that humanity will survive or that we will have the prospect of thriving.

And I stake my ground on that truth.

I'm Autumn Brown. I'm Autumn Brown, frontwoman of the eponymously named Soul Pop Band, Autumn.

A queer science fiction writer, a theologian, a mother of dragons, and a healing justice facilitator for social movements living on Dakota

and Anishinaabe land currently known as Minneapolis.

And I'm Adri Marie Brown, a fat, black queer witch writer and gardener of healing ideas.

I live in the land of the Shakuri, Skorri, Tuscarora, and Lumbi peoples, and it's hurricane season.

And this is how to survive the end of the world.

Our podcast about learning from apocalypse with grace, rigor, and curiosity.

As a reminder, we have no ads.

We are fully listener supported on this show.

So you can join our Patreon for exclusive content, including videos, feelings, and bloopers.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to a very, very special episode of how to survive the end of the world.

Today, we are so honored to have as our guest, the great teacher, Norma Wong.

So before we get into the magic with Norma, before we get into

the magic with Norma, I'm going to just do a little introduction and share some background

on who Norma Wong is. And then we're going to check in, bring ourselves all into the space, and then we'll get into our conversation.

Norma Wong is a native Hawaiian and Hakka lifelong resident of Hawaii.

She is the abbot of Anko Inn, an independent branch temple of Daihanzen

Chosenji, and serves practice communities in Hawaii, across the continental U.S., and in Toronto,

Canada. She is an 86th generation Zen master, having trained at Chzenji for over 40 years. In earlier years,

Wong served as a Hawaii state legislator on the policy and strategy team for Governor

...